Birmingham services

Bus and Coach operations, and timetables for The Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited (BMMO — Midland "Red" Motor Services).
iansdavies
Posts: 7
Joined: 20:41 Monday 27th February 2017

Birmingham services

Post by iansdavies » 14:28 Tuesday 28th February 2017

Hello group, has anyone got a idea of how 163, 169, 193 timetables used to operate, the services ran from Chelmsley to Birmingham 163 being the first, these routes passed over to wmpte in the mid 1970s, heres hoping you can help thanks :D

Noggin1
Posts: 5
Joined: 13:58 Sunday 16th October 2016

Re: Birmingham services

Post by Noggin1 » 10:00 Wednesday 1st March 2017

My timetable booklet for 28 June 1969 until further notice shows, Mondays to Saturdays, the first journey from B'ham (Bus Station, Stand 25) on the 163 at 0540 arriving at Chelmsley Wood (Chelmsley Road/Helmswood Drive) at 0617, then the 193 leaving at 0551 arriving at 0628 at CW (Greenlands Road/Helmswood Drive), then the 169 leaving at 0601 arriving 0638 at CW (Berwicks Lane/Helmswood Road). Then until 2311 these services provide a combined 10 minute frequency to CW (Pine Square), with the 169 leaving B'ham at 1 and 31 minutes past the hour, 193 at 11 and 41 minutes past, and the 163 at 21 and 51 minutes past, before each going on to their above respective terminus arriving 5 minutes after Pine Square. On Fridays and Saturdays there is an extra 163 leaving at 2331 but it terminates at Pine Square.
The return journeys commence 6 minutes after the above arrivals, except for the FS extra which is 5 minutes after. There is no out of service running. On Sundays, the first 169 from B'ham is 0639, then a 163 at 0721, a 193 at 0741, and a 169 at 0801 - this sets a combined 20 minute frequency until 2301, then a short 163 at 2331 to Pine Square.
All full journeys take 37 minutes each way regardless of day or time of day. From B'ham no passenger may be set down until the first bus stop in Bosworth Drive nearest to Tile Cross Road; to B'ham, none picked up after leaving the bus stop in Bosworth Drive nearest to Tile Cross Road.

DD12
Posts: 256
Joined: 19:49 Monday 4th July 2016

Re: Birmingham services

Post by DD12 » 14:19 Wednesday 1st March 2017

That's a superb reply Noggin, - do you have timetable planning experience ?
:)

Noggin1
Posts: 5
Joined: 13:58 Sunday 16th October 2016

Re: Birmingham services

Post by Noggin1 » 15:55 Wednesday 1st March 2017

DD12,
I've never worked in the bus industry, but I do find timetables fascinating. May I take the opportunity of thanking the webmaster for the ever-increasing number of old timetables on this site - someone has noticed.

Back in 1969, I was at school but I found it a very long day, not helped that the 'lunch hour' in those days lasted longer than today. The morning session finished at 12.45 and the afternoon began at 14.10. By chance, a bus could pick me up outside the school at 12.47, deposit me near my home 10 minutes later, then a return would deposit me outside the school about 14.05. This gave me a real break, and Mum's cooking! Pretty lucky for a half hour service, and I think that the good old Midland Red only let me down once.

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AdamH
Posts: 589
Joined: 12:17 Sunday 3rd July 2016
Location: Worcester

Re: Birmingham services

Post by AdamH » 19:34 Wednesday 1st March 2017

Noggin1 wrote:
15:55 Wednesday 1st March 2017
...May I take the opportunity of thanking the webmaster for the ever-increasing number of old timetables on this site - someone has noticed...
Thank you, and you're very welcome. I am trying to get a broad range on the site but my personal collection is rather limited at the moment to being mostly Worcester and Hereford area. But we're getting there!

iansdavies
Posts: 7
Joined: 20:41 Monday 27th February 2017

Re: Birmingham services

Post by iansdavies » 19:57 Wednesday 22nd March 2017

thanks noggin thats absolutely superb i really do appreciate youre feedback :D

iansdavies
Posts: 7
Joined: 20:41 Monday 27th February 2017

Re: Birmingham services

Post by iansdavies » 12:09 Tuesday 28th March 2017

thanks for youre feedback any ideas how the 161 171 routes operated at :)

Noggin1
Posts: 5
Joined: 13:58 Sunday 16th October 2016

Re: Birmingham services

Post by Noggin1 » 16:23 Tuesday 28th March 2017

Ian
I suspect that my booklet from 28/06/69 is too early for you, as it shows a 161 running via Castle Bromwich (Victory Hall) via Water Orton to Coleshill (Parkfield Road) and a 168 running via Castle Bromwich (The Green) via Bacons End to Coleshill (Parkfield Road). There had previously been a 171, used for short working to Water Orton. There was also a 160 B’ham via Castle Bromwich (The Green) to Kingshurst. All ran via Saltley and Ward End (Fox & Goose).
As you remember the combination 161/171, it's probably a later re-arrangement of the above services.
On https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/8050359@N ... net_jamie/ lordlee2012 says 'In 1973, routes 161/171 were merged into route 161 operating clockwise Birmingham to Birmingham Bus Station via Ward End, Water Orton, Coleshill, Chelmsley Wood, Marston Green and Coventry Road with route 171 covering the anticlockwise side of the route.'
If so, as the WMPTE transfer happened 3/12/73, it was done by Midland Red in anticipation of the transfer, or it was done by WMPTE from the transfer. I am guessing that the circular route is what you remember.

Noggin1
Posts: 5
Joined: 13:58 Sunday 16th October 2016

Re: Birmingham services

Post by Noggin1 » 16:44 Tuesday 28th March 2017

Sorry I should have included from 1969 the 165 which ran B'ham via Marston Green to Coleshill. There was no direct service from Coleshill to Chelmsley Wood at that time. It was probably the 161 etc and the 165 which morphed into the circular 161/171.

JustinTyme
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:20 Monday 4th July 2016
Location: Solihull

Re: Birmingham services

Post by JustinTyme » 19:15 Tuesday 28th March 2017

I can provide some information about this.

From the 1920s 161 ran Birmingham - Water Orton - Coleshill, and 165 ran Birmingham - Sheldon - Marston Green - Coleshill. Until 15 March 1969 short workings to Water Orton showed the number 171 and shorts to Marston Green showed 166.

On 6 December 1969 a new 171 started, running Birmingham - Yardley - Garretts Green - Chelmsley Wood (Bluebell Drive).

On 21 August 1971 the 161 and 171 were extended to form a Birmingham - Coleshill circular service: 161 clockwise, 171 anticlockwise. The 165 was withdrawn at this time.

The Birmingham - Bordesley Green - Chelmsley Wood services started on 4 Nov 1967 (163), 7 Sep 1968 (169), 7 Dec 1968 (193) and 1 Nov 1969 (195).

The 194 Birmingham - Castle Bromwich - Arran Way also started on 1 Nov 1969; unlike the 160 and 168 (but like the 163/169/193) it did not carry local passengers within the Birmingham city boundary.

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